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Harlyn Geronimo: You can be born into it and you can also earn it in combat, in battles.
JL; So then with your great grandfather Geronimo, he earned it, but he also had this because of his father being a chief?
Harlyn Geronimo: Yes, he did and then his great grandfather was also a chief.
JL: Ok now that makes it very clear.
Harlyn Geronimo: A chief , if you look at it, is not really a term to use because this position is a very powerful position, more royalty involved.
JL:Another thing that I read in the book, said that your great grandfather was just a a war leader for the battles. What about during times of peace, was he considered the same?
Harlyn Geronimo: Yes, he was the same because the system is set up where they are recognized as a warrior. During the time of peace or during the time of war. So they earned that title.
JL: Yes, because it kind of said in the book that he was more like a war leader for the battles. That he would organize the battles.
Harlyn Geronimo: Well, my great grandfather was very knowledgeable in warfare because it was passed on and also learned in a classroom, but also in a smaller group. He was taught the different techniques they used in battles, the hit and run, the ambush. For instance, when they go out hunting, they used the same tactics they used when they would go out and hunt down a man like if they were going to hunt down a deer. It's carried over from that to hunting and then into the battle fields.
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JL: Do they live in New Mexico?
Harlyn Geronimio: They live here in Mescalero, but they are really not familiar with the history.
JL: They're not?
Harlyn Geronimio: No, they're not.
JL: So how did they kill Mangus Colorados?
Harlyn Geronimio: That's one of the Chiriachaua Apache chiefs from Geronimo's band, Mangus Colorados.
JL: And the way he died, did they kill him inside of a tent? Someone threw a massive stone on top of his chest while he was asleep?
Harlyn Geronimio: Yes they did. I was told the reason they killed him was because he was getting a lot of the Chirichaua Apaches together to fight the western movement; and he was accomplishing a lot at that time. And at the same time period, the Cavalries killed another chief up north, I believe it was Crazy Horse. I don't know who it was, but it was at that same time period. I assume they did this intentionally to stop the fighting, because these people were very knowledgeable and also very superior in their physical condition. Even the military couldn't keep up with them. So that's one way to destroy the leadership.
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JL: So, are there many mixed bloods?
Harlyn Geronimo: Presently?
JL: Yes.
Harlyn Geronimo: Well presently, we are situated in central New Mexico and we have 3 or 4 towns around the reservation. And the majority of the school kids go to school at Tularoso, which is on the west side of the reservation. I would say about 15 miles, and then on the east side we have the Ruidosuo. I would say it's located out there about 4 or 5 miles near the reservation. So with this many students going through these two schools, we presently have a lot of inter-marriages now.
JL: Is there any prejudice on the reservation between mixed bloods and full bloods?
Harlyn Geronimo: Yes, well, you know the older people I've talked to, they complain about it. About integration, because the more tribal members inter-marry, to them, the culture is sort of fading away. It's forgotten.
JL: Another thing, he didn't really talk about his medicine in the book. He mentions that he knew how to cut out bullets and arrows. He did say how the Apache got the medicine and herbs from Usen.
Harlyn Geronimio: That's the Apache God.
JL: Yes, Usen, but he didn't really talk about the medicine. Do you think it is because he didn't want to talk about it, or because this Daklugie guy cut it out again?
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Harlyn Geronimio: That part he was pretty upset, because the Chirichaua were there for a good fifteen to 2,000 years comfortably and in harmony with mother nature. They weren't starving. They had everything in that mountainous region. When the Anglos and the Mexicans started shooting up on his homeland and started killing his people cruelly, unexpectedly, when they weren't on guard. They kept on continuing until they got the tribe down to a good, maybe a thousand. You are going to be upset.
I was told that he was very upset, because he killed Cavalrys and the Mexican Calvary's killed about half of the Chirchaua Apaches. At that time, they knew they were after the land, and he tried to get all the Apache nations to go against the western movement at the time, but some of them didn't want to fight. He talked about the babies, the kids and even the old folks that were killed fighting the different battles they were in. Being a warrior growing up in that area, you are constantly facing your adversaries. It's going to affect you mentally. Then after that, being in prison for 28 years, incarcerated for fighting for your homeland, freedom for your people. This is what the government did to these people. They are going to be upset.
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JL: In your culture, when someone is killed, does someone have to take revenge for this person? Is there like an obligation?
Harlyn Geronimo: Well, traditionally, if you put the time frame back a good 150 years back, then that was one of the main information that was given to the warriors. Maybe 10 or even 20 of the warriors that were killed. They had to settle this in a way where the whole village was wiped out. So you know, it's not one or two that are going to pay for the lives of maybe so many warriors. The retaliation is going to be a whole village or a small settlement.
JL: So, is that one of the reasons that kept the cycle of wars with the Mexicans continuing, because one side would kill someone and then the other would take revenge and it would go back and forth?
Harlyn Geronimo: Yes, it would. Not only that, but the main reason is they were coming onto the Apache territory. They kept coming year after year even though a lot of them were killed. It was a constant practice for the Mexicans to try to take the land from the Apaches.
JL: Were the Comanche's enemies of the Apaches at that time?
Harlyn Geronimo: Yes ,they were also enemies because they were used as scouts for the Calvarys and they were pretty close communicating with the Mexican armies also. And then besides that, they were also trying to come into the Apache territories and take land from them, but the Apache had put up a big fight on this side of the valley.

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JL: Where is the Comanche territory?
Harlyn Geronimo: Part of it is in Texas, part of it in Okalahoma.
JL: After the battle of kas ki yah, Geronimo went looking for more revenge on the Mexicans and two of his companions were killed and he was blamed for this. He had no response and nothing to say. Do you know if this was true that his people blamed him?
Harlyn Geronimo: That's true, you know in situations, some family members would resort to that because this is a very close system. Within the society itself, the families are very close and in situations they usually resort to things of this nature, because usually there's families involved. The warriors would have at that time 150 years ago, some of them would have one or two wives and they had to support the families. So, usually there was a big dispute in that area.
JL: We talked a little bit about this earlier. This General Miles and how he told Geronimo that if he would agree to the treaty, he would give him land, with animals and people to work his land. Then as soon as he signed it, he put him into a hard labor camp for two years.
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